Can men and women be friends?

Interesting post, Jung Girl.

I can only speak from personal experience, and I absolutely believe that a man and a woman can be the best of friends without one of them developing romantic feelings for the other. As a matter of fact, the best friend I have ever had was a male (sadly, he died at a young age). I strongly believe that we were blood related in a past lifetime…

I have a lot of female freinds. Romance seldom enetrs my mind…although sex does….but I don't let it get in the way of a good freindship.

I started with one of my brief comments (lol) and decided I need to blog about this, so please see my response there.

This is a massive enquiry… with a multitude of variables. On the recently started “conscious relationships” group, by Kat and Gay Hendricks… there is a thread about transference, projection and reflection. I have to say that I started it from a completely clue-less point of view…. and the hole is even deeper…. I got no answers for you here jung-girl.  Blessings and peace xxx

I have a lot of male friends and I so appreciate abundant masculine energy in my life. I love men (I love women and femininity too, they just fulfill different needs). Some of my male friends are almost like brothers to me. A lot of my male friends are incredible. They're handsome, intelligent, kind, loving, protective, funny, charming, deep…I mean, they're quality men and I think any woman would be lucky to have any of them. A lot of them are in partnerships with extraordinary women, who are also my friends. The nature of these friendships isn't romantic. It's just not who we are to each other.

Attraction or sexual instinct might be present at any given moment in friendships, but, as Maze said, this doesn't have to cloud your perspective and get in the way. I'm in a relationship, but I had a lot of male friends in between relationships as well and they stayed friendships. There was a clear understanding of who we were to each other. And, I think it's okay if the nature of a relationship changes or becomes romantic. A lot of people find great partners through friendship, but it's best if this is done in a mature fashion, with respect and as much equanimity and wisdom as possible. Without clarity, any relationship can be doomed. I think that's really what dooms a relationship. Delusion, confusion and lack of self-control, not sexual desire, as the When Harry Met Sally clip suggests. I don't care if my male friends have thought of me sexually at some point or other. Seriously, it's part of their DNA and if they are man enough (and I'm woman enough ;) to control themselves and adhere to a higher standard, then who cares? If we're clear and value our friendship, it doesn't get in the way.

And, if men and women can't be friends then what about gay people? They wouldn't be able to have friends at all who weren't of the opposite sex and gay too (to have mutually exclusive attractions), for fear that someone would somehow be attracted at some point. Bisexual people would all be destined to a life of friendlessness. But, all relationships are subject to difficulty and the intrusion of animalistic instincts, whether they be fear based and competitive (in same sex friendships or relationships of any kind) or sexual. We must face these instincts everyday because we have an animal body. Ideally, friendship and true partnership (romantic or otherwise) give us the opportunity to rise above our instincts and lead with our spirit, ethics and wisdom. It's a tall order. But, that's what personal development, practice and discipline are for.

   Oh man, I empathize with Sharon on this one – I've got no answers. What Jessica said seems quite true, and I find the argument about homosexuals and bisexusals especially convincing. The reason I don't believe the whole thing is that I don't buy her take on instinct.
   (laughs) As with most things, i don't know quite why I don't buy what she says, but one question came to me whilst I did ponder it. The question is based on instinct being something we want to do before we come up with reasons for it. Are we doing ourselves good by rising above instincts, if that means to ignore them?
   I have personally experienced sexual instincts that I have suppressed without any apparent ill effects, but I have also followed instincts that have led me out of serious jams and into great opportunities – like the instinct to call a person at a certain time, or to let one project go in favor of another, or just to stay in a room. If I abandoned that second kind of instinct, It seems I would be far worse off in physical and mental terms.

   So, I've got a conflict – I believe most of what Jessica says, but I also believe in extraordinarily beneficial instincts. Aaahhh, it is like porpoises are playing hopscotch in my mind!!! (clutches head)

   Ah well.

Be Well,
   - Hat Man (cue theme song)



P.S.: Almost forgot! Woo “When Harry met Sally”! Good for you if you watched the whole thing!

Jung Girl, with this simple question, I could write a dissertation (don't laugh, Dave, but I might have to blog about it too.).  It all goes to the question of intention…

Would your feelings be hurt if a man you found attractive said, “I'm so glad we're friends!  I've been looking for a life partner for some time now and you've helped me hone myself to the point where I believe I can find someone now.  Thanks!”?  As a man, I've been on the receiving end of this sort of message a few times and it can cause an achy breaky heart.

Most all of my good friends are male. I am finding more female friends that I can enjoy, but on the whole find men less dramatic and much easier to work with in a work setting…my son  and my husband have more women friends and do not enjoy male puffed up ego crap…although they have some men friends and are not adverse to being friends with men…

And all of us are truly comfortable being friends without it being more than that.

In my experience it has been quite difficult to be friends with men…. attraction does get in the way, sometimes obviously and sometimes subtley….. the ones I want to be friends with are usually spiritually orientated… and that's what I find attractive. Perhaps the answer might be to see each other as beings, as opposed to specific genders. This could be an arena for letting all these genetically programmed desires surface, an opportunity to feel seen and heard with regards  to our impulsive emotions or deep desires… without acting upon them. I think that should be allowed (and I have gone through this process with a couple of men friends, it's a bit like moving from a pond to a river: freer, easier, less confusion, but not pain-free. Because I do have this deep, longing, fragile desire to be met on a deep level by a man. Yet while I feel friends are important- there is work to be done and often these men friends have fallen away once the work is done.) It would take much awareness, enquiry, patience and compassion, but who knows? by the time we get to 3030 it might be plain sailing!
Thanks for putting the question out there JG. x
Oh and “Hello Hat-Man!”

I thought I had written that I look at peeps and myself as a human first, a gender second…it does make life easier if you look at yourself that way!

I couldn't agree with you more, enlightened.thinker. That's it, that's the key to great human relationships.

Ooops humble apologies Enlightened Thinker and for all those sitting there with the blood draining out their face through boredom of repetition. Did not mean to detract anything from your original message. I should have been more mindful of what you had written and actually read it.  s

Can men and women be friends? Yes, of course they can. I think the real question everyone is asking is if man-woman friendships can be simply that, or must they always be complicated by sex, or whatever various issue arises. But what friendship is always simple and uncomplicated? Friendships are part of life, which tends to be complicated by various arising issues. As I see it, the real point (not a question) is how we deal with what arises in our life of friendships.

Pardon my simplicity………..
AL

Neat way to start a discussion!  Ya that is old fashioned dumbass patriarchal guy talk from Billy Crystal.  Most of my friends are women. In fact, I'm trying to develop more male friendships as a balance, but i will say its hard to find men who are spiritually mature.   In some of my female friendships there is a sexual dynamic, and that can be a nice spark, as long as we're clear about it. Sexual energy is a life force, and nothing to be afraid of. It comes down to being conscious, and transparent and honest.   And sometimes, there is just that  scenario where one person wants to be friends and the other wants more and that can be dissapointing.  But boy, my life is so much richer for all the amazing women in life.  I'd hate to have to limit the women in my life to potential mates!  ~xoVcrow

Velcrow, appreciate what you have written here very much.

   Oh dang. I still don't have a solution to my conflict regarding instinct (see above!),  but what given said strikes a magnificent chord in my head. I think that explanation is wonderfully close to perfect. I can see the shadows of how it relates to all the things I talked about with instinct, but for now, I'm going to see if the answer is satisfactory to me in simple form.
   Thanks a lot, given!

I just happened upon this discussion and had to add my two cents.  First off, I really enjoyed reading all of the responses – all the myriad of perspectives.  It occurs to me that no matter how much work we do on ourselves, we are all human beings.  So many of us when we get on the spiritual path begin to hold ourselves and others to ideals that can never ever be met.  I know this was true for me.  It has been extremely difficult for me to accept that I am one-half spiritual/transcendent AND one-half human.  And surprisingly, each is EQUALLY Divine.

It would seem this acceptance of my/our human nature is the work of compassion.  Our perfected self (spirit) doesn't need compassion.   It's perfect.  It's this sloppy, fragile, vulnerable, needy stuff of being human that needs our compassion. 

In Buddhism there is the term “maitre” which means “unconditional friendship with one's self” – more succinctly put – to love and accept all of our fragile and vulnerable aspects.  The Buddha said this was an essential trait to have before attaining enlightenment.  When we can love and accept these parts of ourself – we can then truly love and accept others as they are.  And in so-doing have true compassion.

As a man not currently in relationship, if I'm in a balanced space, I can spend time with my female friends and feel very little (if any) sexual or romantic tugs.  However, if I'm feeling overwhelmed by something in my life, or off-balance, that pull can be strong. 

On the other of end of the spectrum, if I feel a woman coming onto me that I don't share the same feelings for, it's easy for me to just pull away and be cold.  Been there, done that.  However, I would like to move to a place where I can stay in my center, keep my heart open, and still honor my boundaries.  That's a high ideal unto itself, however I think that is “what Love would do” in that situation.